Top 10 Construction Projects (White Elephants) That Were Huge Wastes of Time and Money — TopTenzNet


Top 10 Construction Projects That Were Huge
Wastes of Time and Money 10. Russky Bridge Nikita Khrushchev once referred to Vladivostok
as “Russia’s San Francisco.” So what better way to make Vladivostok even more like
San Francisco than by building it an iconic bridge like the Golden Gate? When Vladivostok
was chosen in 2007 as the site for the 2012 Asia Pacific Economic Conference, Vladimir
Putin had his excuse to spend a billion dollars on what would be the world’s longest cable
bridge. It would connect mainland Vladivostok to Russky Island, where the conference would
be held. However, the Golden Gate Bridge, and pretty
much every other bridge in the world, actually connects population centers. Russky Island
has 5000 residents. The bridge was designed to handle 50,000 cars per day. It did make
things convenient for the two day conference, but since then the bridge has predictably
had very light traffic and the hope of turning the island into a major tourist attraction
has developed slowly, to put it generously. 9. Detroit People Mover Detroit once had a population of 1.8 million
and was America’s fourth largest city. It had an impressive skyline and vibrant downtown
scene. Then a city that was built by the automobile industry was ironically devastated by a system
of freeways providing easy access to the suburbs. Today the city’s population is around 700,000,
and it recently had the dubious distinction of being the largest city to ever declare
bankruptcy. This didn’t happen overnight. Recognizing
the trend, city leaders in the mid ’80s decided to build a funky transit system around
downtown to connect major businesses while protecting patrons from Detroit’s notoriously
awful weather. Thus the “Detroit People Mover” was conceived. It’s an elevated
2.9 mile one way tram around downtown that connects all major sites. Just one problem — it’s a loop that doesn’t
connect to anything else. Detroit has no metro rail system like other large cities, which
would allow commuters to ride into town and then board the People Mover to their specific
destination. Riders on Detroit’s public bus system can’t transfer on board, but
rather need to buy a second ticket from an independent system. It is a very reasonable
75 cents per ride, but cost analysis shows that each rider costs the cash-strapped city
three dollars. Even before it opened in 1987, many realized
it would never come close to its projected use of 68,000 riders per day. They were right
— 6000 per day is pretty much the normal expectancy. One person summed it up best as
a “horizontal elevator to nowhere.” 8. Ryugyong Hotel In 1987, construction began in Pyongyang,
North Korea on a 105 story building scheduled to be the world’s tallest hotel. Let that
sink in for a moment. The world’s tallest hotel, with around 3000 rooms, in a country
that allows very few visitors. It was far and away the most elaborate project
in the history of the totalitarian state, and predictably there were some problems.
The construction was plagued with delays and cost overruns until 1992 when, shortly after
the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of their financial support, the project was
halted. By this point it was estimated the project had cost $750 million, or about 2%
of North Korea’s GDP. All they had to show for it was an oddly shaped concrete shell
with a cone and rusting crane on top. That’s how it would stay for sixteen years
before an Egyptian telecommunications firm stepped in and offered to complete the project.
Again, let that sink in. A country which allows very limited use of cellphones and Internet
partnered with a telecommunications firm. Fortunately, they were able to put a glass
facade on the building and it’s now rather aesthetically pleasing compared to the concrete
shell it used to be. However, there’s no timeline for when it will be ready for guests,
and many speculate that the inside is completely bare. 7. Mirabel International Airport In the late ’60s, Montreal was ready to
make the jump from Canada’s cultural center to global city. It hosted the highly successful
Expo 67 World’s Fair, was awarded Major League Baseball’s first franchise outside
the United States, and was given the honor of hosting the 1976 Summer Olympics. Aviation
wise, it also has the distinction of being the closest major North American city to most
of the cities of Europe. In an era when commercial aircraft had a more limited range it was often
necessary for flights originating from anywhere other than the east coast to stop for fuel
before crossing the Atlantic. Government leaders decided that the fairly large and conveniently
located Dorval (now Pierre Elliott Trudeau) International Airport just wouldn’t do for
such an important city. So the decision was made to build a 221 square mile (at the time
the biggest in the world) airport 34 miles northwest of downtown. When Mirabel opened in 1975 the decision was
made to keep Dorval open for domestic flights while using Mirabel for international flights.
This meant anyone transferring from a domestic to international flight had to take an hour
long bus ride between airports. But by the time the airport opened planes could travel
much farther, and airlines figured out that passengers would prefer not to have to take
an hour long bus ride as part of their journey to and from Europe. So they simply started
flying to other destinations for their transferring customers instead. In 1997 the decision was made to return international
flights to Dorval. This was the final nail in Mirabel’s coffin, as the conveniently
located Dorval could now provide all the same services. By 2004 commercial flights ceased
to use Mirabel and it became a little used cargo airport. It’s main use today is as
a race track and occasional movie set, where it’s most recognizable as the home of all
the zombies in Warm Bodies. Does anyone else see the irony? 6. Athens Olympic Facilities In 1997 Athens was awarded the 2004 Summer
Olympics. This was one year after the Olympic Committee became very unhappy with Atlanta
for relying heavily on corporate sponsorship to fund the 1996 games, and for primarily
using temporary venues or modest facilities. So they told the small country of Greece to
build things bigger and grander, and to use primarily public funding for it. The facilities were spectacular for the two
weeks the Olympics were held, but there was virtually no plan for what to do with most
of them once the games were complete. Currently the only facility getting any consistent use
is the main stadium, which is used by the local soccer club and for various other events.
Most of the other facilities are getting no use whatsoever. For instance, a beach volleyball
stadium was built for the games despite Athens sitting on an actual beach. Likewise, the
baseball stadium is getting no use in a country where the national baseball team had to be
made up entirely of Americans with Greek heritage. Just to make matters worse for the small country,
these were the first Summer Olympics held after September 11. Needless to say, security
was a bit of a concern. It’s estimated the games cost Greece upwards of 5% of their entire
GDP. It’s no surprise that the country was plunged into economic chaos just a few years
after the games. Other countries are beginning to see the futility of hosting the Olympics,
and only two cities are bidding for the “honor” of hosting the 2022 Winter Games. 5. Lambert-St. Louis Airport Expansion By the mid ’90s St. Louis’ airport had
become the eighth busiest in the nation, mostly due to being the primary domestic hub for
TWA, a brand name which means something to old people. However, in terms of physical
size it was one of the smallest airports in the country. Its parallel runways, which are
pretty much a necessity for any hub, were too close together to meet the FAA’s standards
for bad weather landings and takeoffs. Anyone who has ever been to St. Louis knows that
bad weather is a frequent occurrence, and the resulting delays caused chaos to the TWA
system. The simplest solution would’ve been to build
a new airport. St. Louis is located right along the Mississippi River, and not far across
the river is plenty of open space to build a suitable airport. However, the land across
the river is also known as Illinois. Missouri officials weren’t willing to put their precious
airport in another state, even though, say, Cincinnati has done just fine having their
airport in neighboring Kentucky. So expansion was deemed the only option, even
though the airport was completely surrounded by suburbs and therefore a large swath of
residential and commercial space would have to be demolished. The powers that be decided
one of the suburbs was just going to have to be sacrificed to allow for the expansion.
Here is the (presumed) transcript from the meeting: Participant: So, which suburb shall we destroy? All Other Participants: Bridgeton! Maniacal laughing, twirling of mustaches and
lighting of cigars with hundred dollar bills. Bridgeton was a working class suburb of around
20,000 people. The plan to build the FAA compliant parallel runway went right through the middle
of the town and required the demolition of 2000 homes, four schools and six churches.
In 1998 Operation Screw Bridgeton began. Three years later the project was going according
to plan, but then TWA was bought out by American Airlines. Since American already had very
large hubs in Chicago and Dallas they had no need for another one right between them.
By 2006, when the project was completed, the number of flights had decreased by nearly
80% from its peak before the start of the project. There was no longer a need for a
second runway, which in addition to destroying Bridgeton had cost $1.1 billion. To add insult to injury, the new runway is
much farther from the terminal. While that may not seem like a big deal, large aircraft
require a great deal of fuel. Taxiing just a little farther is a lot more expensive.
So the new runway is only used on rare occasions when parallel landings and takeoffs are needed,
which represent about 5% of flights at the airport. 4. Montreal Olympic Stadium Although Montreal’s 1976 Summer Olympics
were fairly successful, like Athens they were a financial disaster for the city. This was
largely due to the enormous security cost they didn’t anticipate but became necessary
after the 1972 Munich Massacre. Unlike Athens, Montreal had specific plans
for all of its venues after the games. The centerpiece of the games was Olympic Stadium.
It was given the nickname “the big O,” both for hosting the Olympics and for its
donut shape. After the games it would become the home of the Expos, and would host many
other events as well. Like other stadiums of the time, it was designed
as a multi-use facility. Unlike other stadiums at the time, it was designed to have a retractable
roof. Most impressively, it would have the world’s highest inclined tower acting as
a crane to support the roof. While the stadium was completed in time for the Olympics, the
tower and roof were not. In fact, they weren’t completed until 11 years after the Olympics.
Once finally completed the retractable roof was like a giant curtain, prone to tearing
in any wind over 25 mph. After several years of frustration it was decided to just make
the roof a permanent fixture. Unfortunately, it wasn’t a very good roof. Since it was
designed to be pulled off the stadium like a blanket, it had lots of folds and tears
and leaked badly with the slightest precipitation. It wasn’t very strong either, so it was
deemed unsafe if supporting too much snow. After several years of dealing with this the
decision was made to replace the roof, and the new one… ended up with many of the same
problems. Fed up with all these issues, the Expos began demanding a new facility and other
groups decided it was just too risky to schedule events there. Since the city was already strapped
paying off the debts from the Olympics and the aforementioned Mirabel Airport, a new
stadium just wasn’t in the cards. So in 2005 the Expos left for Washington D.C., and
their old stadium currently has no primary tenant. In 2006 it was paid off for a final
cost of $1.6 billion, making it the most expensive stadium ever built at the time. Locals have
since changed its nickname to “The Big Owe.” 3. Palace of Parliament In 1984 Nicolae Ceaucescu, the ruthless dictator
of Romania, decided that poverty stricken Romanians didn’t really need healthcare,
education, or food. No, what they needed was a gigantic palace, the largest in all of Europe,
to house government offices, and of course Ceaucescu himself. In 1989 Ceaucescu was deposed and executed,
but his massive building remained. The new government decided it would be suitable for
all of their needs as well, because hey, no sense in turning down a free parliament building.
Except Romania isn’t very big. Even though the building houses almost every key government
office less than a third of it is occupied. That’s a lot of wasted space, and presumably
a lot of unamused Romanian taxpayers. 2. Millennium Dome (O2 Arena) You may remember that in the late ’90s everyone
was excited about the upcoming new millennium, unless they were certain that Y2K would end
the world. But once New Year’s Day had passed (and Y2K didn’t happen) it ceased to be
interesting. British officials, however, were so confident
that millennium fever would last the entire year they built an impressive $1.3 billion
dome along the Thames which would house an exhibition expected to draw at least 12 million
visitors. It only got six million, mostly because those who did go found it to be very
disappointing, little more than a gigantic advertisement for various big name sponsors. So not only did the exhibit underwhelm, there
was no plan in place for what to do with the dome once the calendar turned to 2001. It
sat empty for a few years before mobile phone provider O2 took it over, and it now serves
mainly as a concert venue. But despite being a dome in a city that loves sports and has
notoriously awful weather, it doesn’t have a permanent tenant. 1. New South China Mall China has undergone an enormous transformation
from a tightly controlled communist economy to a free market system. Chinese people have
embraced consumerism and an opportunity to get goods from around the world. So in 2005
the largest shopping mall in the world opened in the city of Dongguan. It has space for
over 2000 stores, a food court and amusement facilities. Since China’s economy was going
global sections of the mall had different world themes, including a replica Venetian
canal and Arc de Triomphe. And it’s never had more than a dozen stores open at a time.
It was expecting around 100,000 visitors daily. It rarely sees more than 200. The store that
gets the most visitors? McDonald’s. Why has such an impressive facility in a consumer
mad country had such a difficult time attracting customers? Remember that it’s in Dongguan.
Have you heard of Dongguan? Exactly. Even though it’s a city of 10 million it’s
located right between Guangzhou and Hong Kong, cities you have heard of it. Dongguan is essentially
an endless series of drab apartment towers and factories. All those shoes and rubber
ducks you buy are made somewhere, and that’s in places like Dongguan by low paid workers.
People who don’t have money to spend at fancy shopping malls. It was also built on
the outskirts of town with limited public transportation access. In a city of low paid
workers the only way to get there is by car, and most residents don’t own one. Despite being almost completely empty, the
mall is kept impeccably neat and clean. It has a full time staff and is ready should
consumers ever come by. But that seems unlikely, because developers adjusting to the new consumer
economy forgot rule number one: location, location, location.

Comments 100

  • My hometown, not well known outside the UK, spent four years and supposedly millions (can't find a figure online think its was at least £2 million (£2.7 million today or $3.5 million)) to renovate a railway bridge because it got to the point it could barely handle the amount of traffic it was getting. But when it was completed it became famous as an expensive, almost identical looking, eyesore because of its most notable difference which is a massive modernist metal archway above it.

    Ok it was not no where near as expensive as the entries on this list, but it definitely tops the list of local construction projects that were in this case justified but still the a huge waste of money.

  • The Detroit People Mover is now connected to the Detroit QLINE light rail and connects to everything around the city! Great way to get around.

  • IS THIS OWNED BY SIMON WHISTLER??????? WOAH!

  • Simon's pronunciation of words that are even slightly not in English is… to say the least… cringeworthy. Dorville? Trudoo?

  • What about the Large Hadron Collider? LoL!

  • Surprised that there was no mention of Hambantota in Sri Lanka

  • Since you brought it up, how about a video on where the term "white elephant" came from, and how it came to be used the way it is today.

  • Soy el único que ve el anuncio de James Rodríguez mas falso q billete de 15?

  • The actual reason St Louis did not build a new airport in Illinois is because of tax issues. The state of Missouri has really, really low taxes. The state of Illinois has the second highest taxes in the United States. As an Illinois resident I see very few benefits from these huge tax rates, I live in a rural area and the taxes collected mainly go to fund projects in larger area where they will benefit the largest portion of the population. In Illinois our property tax is 2.32% of the property value, we pay 11% of our paychecks to income and sales taxes and with no graduated rates, we all pay 11% no matter how little money you earn.

  • those image transitions ick

  • One you missed is in the Congo. A 400 million $ palace constructed by Mobutu called Gbadolite. It's runway accommodated the supersonic Concorde. Google this name for pics. It it mostly destroyed now but some pics show it's past glory. Great video! Enjoyed! Thanks!

  • great video, straight to the point no useless atempts at humour, no hour long into

  • The millennium some was almost a waste of money .. but since the o2 arena was put there it has boomed!

  • Mr. Whistler, is that you?? 🙂

  • Without looking through the previous 725 comments, is the narrator Simon Whistler? Sounds like him. On the subjects covered, I found it very interesting as it confirmed my belief that the Olympics are a financial disaster (except for the committees who seem to do OK). As for the Millenium Dome, the bill for that monstrosity should be given to Blair.

  • That North Korean hotel is clearly mainly propaganda for the people.

  • Beograd na vodi.
    Belgrade waterfront.

  • all construction is a waste of money

  • Detroit people mover is even worse now that The Joe is no more.

  • There's a lot of interesting information in this video and I would have watched it to the end but…
    I am really sorry to say that the transitions are rather annoying. It's quite frustrating to see my computer slow down and stutter when it actually doesn't. I checked out with some other videos, the images are smooth, i.e. my computer is ok.
    And one more thing. I have no intention at all to offend anyone but the speaker's voice is rather twangy. I mean much of the voice goes thru the nose rather than the mouth, as if the speaker had a problem with his nasal cavity.
    Please, don't get me wrong but I strongly recommend that you should work on your voice if you want to make public speeches (whether live or online, or elsewhere). Your pronunciation is clear but your voice makes me feel as if my nose were stuck.
    Please, no offence intended. Your video is worth watching in terms of content but you should work on the presentation.
    Best wishes!

  • I really doubt the state of Montreal Olympic Stadium's roof was the reason for the relocation of the Expos to Washington. Most baseball stadiums don't have roofs anyway. The big hit against baseball in Montréal was the players strike of 1994-95. The Expos were doing very well this season, and Montréal could even dream of the World Series. Then the strike was called, the World Series cancelled and that dream was shattered. When the strike ended, the team was in bad financial shape, so they had to trade their best (and best paid) players. The team began to loose, and the management made poor decisions, on the field and in marketing. The fans became disgruntled and stopped buying tickets.Then the team owners blamed it on the stadium and ask for a new stadium. That was just to put the shame of the team's relocation on both the City and the provincial government. The stadium already cost enough, and the government could not give to Montréal what it refused to Québec City in 1995 to save the Nordiques, the local hockey team, who was still drawing 16 000 people even when the team was losing. Indeed, it was not rare to see only 5000 people at an Expo game. In 2005, the Expos were moved to Washington D.C.

  • Make a top ten of irritating transitions between still pictures. Oh, wait..

  • Rio's Olympic Park was a wasted of money. Also all stadiuns builded for World Cup. In Brazil we have several white elephants

  • Uh,, these are only your opinions on the matter. You don't speak for the rest of us. Boy!

  • Is this Simon Whistler

  • Poor Montreal shows up twice.

  • Montreal makes this list twice, as a born and raised Quebecker it makes me quite sad. Corruption, what corruption?

  • All churches and religious buildings.

  • “People mover route” it’s called a subway

  • The Montreal stadium is currently the bio dome which is a cool zoo. I went there and the observation tower had a diagonal elevator so it was very cool

  • That hotel in North Korea can't open.
    There have been photos leaked showing a completely bare shell, flooded basements and elevator-shafts that don't line up so no cabin can travel through them.

  • Some of the stadiums in Athens are being used for refugee camps.

  • I'd say the Russian Nuclear program. They made all those nuclear missles and haven't used a single one.

  • "We built this city…
    We built this city on WAS-TED CASH"

  • Simon Whistler is that you!?

  • I wonder where Trumps wall is going to fit in this…

  • Late to this but very interesting!

  • not to mention that, in order to build mirabelle airport, they had to move hundreads of people from their homes.

  • Got it, Anything from the olympics is a waste.

  • "the Big Ow" is what you said, "the big Owe" is what was written on screen, just letting you know

  • Montreal is a city for horrible projects.

  • Boston's "Big Dig" Tens of billions of dollars for a tunnel & artery that was obsolete before it was even finished.

  • what about Brasília?

  • it's not an waste of money buut a waste of materials…

  • Željava air base fits among these easily. It costed 6 billion $ and its definitely a white elephant.

  • True-DOH my accented friend :3 (trudeau) Normally mispronouncation's ruin a video for me, but you're allowed each and every time lol.

  • I saw an "urban explorer"- type video last year where some American(?) tourists got in that North Korean hotel & explored where they WEREN'T allowed to go! A few floors are inhabited, but large blocs of floors are empty, dark & unfinished.

  • Mercedes Benz stadium in Atlanta. The roof doesn't even work and the Georgia Dome was only 25 years old.

  • 'Today I Found Out (YouTube Channel)' guy used to do 'TopTenz' apparently…

  • They can use bicycle to go there. South China mall.

  • Excellent!! I've heard of many of these – but not Dongguan!!

  • Milwaukee is building a trolley system…stay tuned.

  • imma blow up the hotel of doom with a rpg

  • TopTenz you nailed the Quebec two white elephants but why Quebec? Our corrupt politicians! In Canada Quebec is considered as the most corrupt province….

  • You should update this list and add Oahu, Hawaii's rail system. It's completely over budget, overdue, and won't host as many riders as the state actually predicts.

  • mirabel, if realised to its full extent (which covered all of the expropriated land) would have been 27x the size of Dorval and twice the size the city of Montreal itself. think about that – an airport twice as large as the city it's meant to serve.

  • But… but… i live in russky island and i need russky bridge to go to the city! And i dont think that bridge deserved to be listed here though! Its not 5000 residents that live in the island, its 15000+ residents live there or i mean… here! (im living here so…)

  • The montreal olimpic stadium was not only a disater because of the security cost. Corruption was a massive problem too. It is said that 3 to 4 time the concrete that was used was charged.

  • Better finish them all.

  • what about Miami Arena?

  • Ugh wtf is up with transitions

  • Wait until the HS2 is built. Another project been forced up on England that nobody wants, like the O2 arena.

  • How about the Rio olympics venues?

  • They need to add Hawaii's monorail to this list.

  • The danish goverment are famous for wasting money.

  • the 9th thing so so so so wrong! the only white people coming to Detroit at this point deserve Darwinism recognition.. that silly tram thing build literally funnels the dumbest of the dumb white folk right to me!!! this thing should not be on the list given how profitable it is to us here in Detroit… never made less than a grand and have top 10k just robbing dumb white folk

  • i knew it putin is doctor evil
    Putin: whe shall build a bridge
    Constructor: how much do you want to spend on it
    Putin: one biljoen dollars (well rubles but oh well)

  • So they built the world largest airport but they didn't think to build a train line so you could get to the airport?

  • Russky Bridge is much like the Golden Gate. Marin County is not very populous, but I think there's more tourists in the US.

  • How long to wait until adding California's high speed rail project?

  • Yay! Two are in my city!

  • 4:47 Anyone realized that the picture is actually from Vancouver International Airport?

  • Twin Towers

  • Trudeau true-doe

  • What?, no egipcian piramyds?

  • In hopes of hindering the corruption of the Olympic Committee, the games should always be in Greece.

  • Detroit has the underground for weather protection and the rest of Detroit lol

  • Clearly, you've never seen my neighbour's deck.

  • You forgot the new Wembley. Not completely useless but hugely expensive and with a pitch worse than those of every league club and many non-league clubs in the country.

  • The people mover was foolish as it was suppose to be just one part of a transportation plan (the only part built) But at least its still used unlike nearly everything on this list. A little harsh on something that still functions comparing it to the rest of these things.

  • montreal olympic stdium. i recall my grandmother had watched the entire sordid tale of corruption and greed. the trade unions, the provincial govt. the mob all had ties to one another and there was a tug of war between mob and unions to see who got the most amount of money with govt trying to keep enough to make payments to supporters.

    as for the tower, a frenchman architect designed it and said it will work if the right kinds of concrete, rebar, and curing times were employed. it would have worked but the incompetence, greed, and corruption did their jobs, the architect's instructions were disregarded and for decades occasional small pieces fall off the tower – anywhere from 100 lbs to a ton or two.

  • how about the maginot line?

  • Rio, Athens, and all of these countries with white elephants should host the games again and again so it’s atleast used everywhere 12 years or so.

  • Projects of the crazy

  • Lol the follies of poltitions.

  • Cincinnati Ohio has a train that goes in big circle and like Detroit’s, it’s pretty much useless. ☹️

  • Most of buildings when 3 world countries host the Olympics

  • Dear Mr. Whistler:

    China is full of such projects. Just look at their housing bubble that makes the recession look as insignificant as Y2K.

  • …each of these presented the perfect opportunity to launder large sums of money ~ then take the loss as a (tax) write-off when the project inevitably failed.

  • I want to direct a Blues brothers pt 3 movie and film it entirely in Dongguan China, and pay the extras decent money, fil the mall with big name spondsorns merchandise…. then have a 20 minute police vs Bluesmobile car chase scene through the South China mall…. that would be sweet right_ well…. no I guess it wouldnt well turn it into a…. I don=t know, turn it into something man! who is paying for the maintainance crew_ and if McDonald=s is the only place getting any action, then screw it, why not just turn it into THE LARGEST MCDONALD=S this world hasd ever seen… then let the employees fight in gladitorial matches.

  • Every major building built recently in Kansas City is debatable. The occupancy rate on new office buildings is maybe 15%, yet they continue to build more. From my low and ignorant POV, I don't understand. Maybe it's something to do with taxes or finance. It sure isn't profit.
    Then again, maybe these big guys know something I don't. Maybe KC will boom in a few years.

  • Of course Millennium Dome is not used for Sports. The most popular sports in England are Football, Cricket and Tennis and as far s I know it's suitable for non of these sports. Football cannot be played in domes because it's not an indoor sport. It can be played in stadiums with retractable roofs but in this case the roof has to be open during the game except if the referee decides different because of strong precipitation or wind. If there is only light rain or snowfall, the roof has to be open.

  • Too bad the narrator could not bother to learn how to pronoun names of places.

  • Cannuck ?
    One n or two ?

  • I live near mirabell airport what a stupid waste of money

  • You forgot about the AUD44 billion NBN in Australia that is already outdated before it’s completed…

  • >chinese gov't: "i have a great idea! let's build the world's largest mall in our least traveled city!"
    >everyone else: "….."

  • The Olympics need to die fast.

  • I flown on TWA DC 9 and DC 10. That was even back in 1976 Damn I'm old.

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